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Determining Honesty
Hi! I have read so many heart breaking stories from women that you have posted on your site who were betrayed by a net Romeo that I feel that I should relate what I did to determine honesty. I,too, was suckered in by someone who I was corresponding with on the net. He typed such phrases as "dreaming of you," "here's a cloud for you," you are in my heart," etc. At the time, it was so romantic. And now I look back and think, "How could I fall for such bullshit?" Then, I had this gut feeling that maybe he was too flattering or that too good to be true type of thing. So, I felt I had to prove that uneasy feeling I had. I know it was sneaky and devious, but I went on to the site that he had a posting on and answered him under another handle. Sooo, not to my amazement, he answered with the exact same flattery that he was typing to me, except he was more blantant sexually. So, much for being his one and only. I felt like a heel doing this, but I would rather know sooner than falling head over heals for him. Again, ladies, if the flattery gets boot deep, take a deep breath and think. I don't know if I would recommend doing what I did, but at least beware that there are alot of jerks playing the field and typing the same thing to many different "hunnies." Thanks for giving me the opportunity to vent and hopefully prevent another gal from getting hurt. Wild's Reply - You make a good point. One I really hadn't remembered. The abundance of affection crap. Stuff that I would imagine could only be found in romance novels and television but you'd never expect to actually hear in real life much less uttered to you! Very good point. I can see where I got into trouble :) My first love Hey Wild. Excellent website. I've been a visitor to your website for quite a number of months. I have quite a story for you. On April 25, 1999, I met a girl named Jennifer on the Internet. At the time, I was 19 years old. She was 18. Jennifer lives in Pennsylvania and I live in Michigan. We are a few hundred miles apart. Mainly, we began by talking online for a while in a chatroom which no longer exists. Sooner after that, we began using ICQ to communicate. I want to try to make this as short as I can but get to the point. We got used to talking on ICQ almost every single night. Then we started getting closer to each other, as we realized we had so much in common. I wasn't dating anyone, and neither was she. It wasn't until about a year and a half later we started talking on the phone, writing letters to each other in the mail, sending gifts to each other, etc. At first the things were little, but we did it anyway. On August 7, 2000, I took a Greyhound bus from Michigan to her part of Pennsylvania, which was almost 20 hours long; a very tiring trip. When we saw each other for the first time, I stayed at her house, which in it lives her mother, brother, step-Dad, and three little kids that belong to her step-sister. They have these kids for reasons that don't need to be described to tell you my full story, so I won't get into that. Anyway, I was only there until August 9. We had an excellent time with each other. Held hands, laughed with what we would talk about, and neither one of us couldn't have enjoyed ourselves any better. The first meeting went great. While I was there I also had a good time meeting her Mom, brother, and the kids. Notice I didn't mention her step-Dad; I'll get more into that later. He was very quiet and distant those three days I was there, and hardly spoke a word to me. So anyway, I came back home, and for quite a while we were sad because we weren't within each other's sight. At this point of our relationship, the LOVE part of it kicked in. Neither one of us knew when we would see each other again. So we went back to the usual "ICQ at 10:00 PM", every night. And when we would get on there, we'd stay on until like 1:00 to 2:00 the next morning. Not all the time, but most times. Not much longer after I came back, she started making plans to want to visit here. She came here the same way I had went down there, a bus, on December 28 - January 3. For this being only the second time we had met, things went off better than the first. We were even closer to each other and got more on the romantic side. We knew where to draw the line, so neither one of us went near sex. But aside from that, she really enjoyed it here and got along perfect with my Mom & Dad plus my 8-year old brother. She described Michigan (since it was her first ever time to this state) to be very peaceful and quiet, and quite a difference compared to her everyday life. She would compare her place to be pure chaos, with the kids mis-behaving, and the way the people at work were, etc. So we again, had an excellent time with each other. My parents enjoyed her company and my Mom thought she fit right in. She did the cooking and was an excellent cook. Made the best home-made pizza. So a couple nights later, we were back to our usual ways of keeping in touch mostly with our computers sending each other ICQ messages, and on occasion we would still call each other, send gifts, etc., until the first week in March to the 9th. I went there for my second time via Greyhound again. Stayed longer this time, more like a week. We enjoyed spending time together, and we still felt very close and got even more romantic than the first time we did, but still, we did not have sex. She was fully aware that I was not ready for sex because I was at quite a young age, and I did not want anything to happen. She herself, admitted she was not ready either, but we went as close as we could without having sex. We still had our clothes on, but barely. That's how close we really were. So we had a nice time again. I was also keeping her family company by talking to them about me and what I do here and stuff, while she was at work. I got along very well with her Mom, Grandmother, and brother, plus the kids. Her step-Dad, however, was pretty much the same guy he was during my first visit. I didn't let that bother me, as I had too much fun with Jennifer and her other family members. The week went by fast and once again, it was time for me to go back home. She came back to visit me from July 9 - 13, 2001. We weren't any closer than the trip in March; the romantic part remained about the same, and we still had the same level of fun. Showed her around here some more, and she loved every minute of it. I had my old Sony Playstation in my closet and it had been sitting there in it's box since November of 2000, when I bought my PS2. She wanted to have it, and I told her I'd mail it out since I was quite the gentleman and wanted to see it to go to someone I cared deeply about. And here, Wild, is where it all changed so very quickly. We were in love with each other, thought nothing could end it, and we had the perfect thing going on for us. I couldn't have been happier because I felt after being with her for what time I was with her, I thought I had found my other half. During our chats, she would talk about us getting married, having kids, etc. someday. Here it goes. I was planning on seeing her for a third time, from September 4 - 10, 2001, only this time I was going to drive. On August 30, she got on ICQ and wanted to tell me something. She was rather slow because she didn't know how to word this. I had no idea what I was about to hear, and I was at the edge of my seat waiting for her to just tell me. She started out by saying that what she wanted to say I couldn't tell anyone. Her family, my family, her best friend, and people like that. I said okay, I won't. My Mom came in and looked at me and knew something didn't look right with me. So l ittle did Jennifer know, while she started telling me what she had been hiding from me, my Mom got in and watched. I didn't mind, because I didn't really think it'd be that big of a thing. So to finally make her get started I helped by saying "I won't get upset.". She said that I would. So, she began to put down the words that shocked me to pieces. She said, "I felt like I was my step-father's mistress, and when I mean mistress, I mean it in every describable way.". She went on by saying that this lasted almost every night for 5 years, and sex was a main factor throughout that long period of time. I was like just sitting there with my mouth open loss for words when I heard this coming from her to me, but she felt it was time to tell me. Our relationship was at the point where if she would not have told me at this time, it would not have been right. It raised lots of red flags all at once, because she made it sound like it came to a sudden end for good only a WEEK before my first visit, August of 2000. Well for one thing, it can't las t almost every night for 5 years, and then the next night and every night from then on have it come to a complete halt. That's not how it works. And she called this a little trivial thing, too, which again, made my jaw drop to the floor. Her step-Dad started doing this to her at a very young age, probably 13 or 14, and she did nothing about it. I'm telling you Wild, anyone with half a brain would have done the right thing and saw to it that he went to jail for what he did. Having sex with someone that young and especially for that long is a very serious issue, and he could spend anywhere from 20 years to life behind bars form doing what he did. It took her long enough to tell me about this, as she said she has wanted to tell me about this much sooner, but simply wasn't ready. She told her minister a while back about this deal, and actually talked him out of telling the cops. Also, the minister's wife found out, and she again had to talk her out of telling the cops. Why she would act this way is beyond me. I never have known her to be like this, let alone live the life she lived at one point in her life, one of the roughest you could have lived. Who knows what else may have went on too. So anyway, this was about 5 days prior to when I was going to drive down to see her. I felt pretty sad after getting the complete story, but after telling my parents, they gave me quite a lot of advice. They were telling me things I wasn't even thinking of, so it made me look at this whole situation much differently than I first did. One of the things my parents said to me was to MOVE ON. I ignored Jennifer for the next few days, and waited until the day before I was going to originally leave, and I emailed her telling her I wouldn't come down due to what she had told me. I could not confront her step-Dad knowing what I recently found out. Not to mention I was disappointed in her for either allowing him to do it to her and/or for her to do it to him, call it a little trivial thing, and all that other stuff. I had my Dad help me compose the email because he can be better at that kind of thing for me, which I appreciated. I made it short and simple. 5 sentences or less. I simply said I wasn't going to come down because of how it made me feel, and all that. It left a knot in my stomach that just would not go away. Which after she told me this, I was literally sick to my stomach and couldn't eat right for like 4 days in a row. It was one of those things that once I heard about it, the more disgusting I thought it was. And I couldn't get it out of my head. Well, she wrote back, and was pissed. She was calling me a jerk, and for what, you know? In the 2 1/2 years I have known her, she never got upset at me once. She expected me to take what she said, and just like her, sweep it under the rug and not think anything about it. An impossible thing for me to do, as I could never sweep something as serious as this under the rug and continue a relationship with her. I mean, if she' d either allow it to happen or do it with her step-Dad, who knows who else she'd have sex with. She could be doing it to the meter reader or the UPS man, for instance...lol. If we would have been married and she was all to herself and one of these two kinds of people came to the house for example, she could take advantage of the situation, and knowing how a typical guy would respond, he might proceed in drawing near her and dropping his pants right on the spot. THANK GOD I WAS NOT MARRIED TO JENNIFER. To have that hanging over my head would be a living nightmare, which would have definately been hanging over my head anytime we would be apart. The question would always hit me (I just know it), "Who could she be having sex with now?". UGG. I am one heck of a lucky guy here. But anyway, she was looking so forward for me to come down (for weeks), because she wanted to get our pics taken together professionally, take her Grandmother out to dinner, and we had more things planned. I was looking forward to going down as well (until I heard al l about this of course), and had for like at least a month or so. Started planning for this shortly after she left here in July. But I bailed out at the last second, and lost not one penny on this, as I never bought a bus ticket (tee hee) or I would have been lucky to have been able to get a refund (if I could have been eligable to even get a refund). I simply decided that based on my parents' advice and how I felt, it was time to move on. There is somebody out there that is better for me, around my age, lives locally, and has lived a clean life. My job now is to find that individual, as I am in no hurry whatsoever to find her. If for some reason I can't manage to find that person, it won't be the end of the world for me. My life surely will go on without Jennifer, and it could surely go on by myself from present day until I reach old age if that's how it really does go. Oh well. If I never find my other half someday, I will still remain a happy, single person. I am glad I found out about this before the relationship we once held got to like a marriage-level or even beyond (kids). There were times where I thought the two of us would marry each other someday. I'd have a pretty miserable life from that point on, if she would have waited to tell me this after the wedding. And there wouldn't be a thing I could do about it, either. In closing, I feel bad because this was my first love and she has done so much for me as I have done so much for her, but I also feel good. I think that's a good way to feel at this point, and as each day goes on, it will just get better & better for me. And soon, I will think no more of Jennifer in my daily life, ever again. Especially if I ever happen to find someone else. I'll be thanking myself that I made the correct decision when it came to parting ways with Jennifer. This was quite a story, wouldn't ya say Wild?! Keep up the good work on your website. I will always be a visitor here. I tell anyone I can about you, too. I've even got a link to you off my web page! Wild's Reply - Yeah I agree. This was sickening. It was a real tough read for me and I'm just sitting here shaking my head going what a prick. Yup, I see the link from your website going away because I called you a prick. Jennifer, after 2.5 years, feels close enough to somebody in her life, trusts somebody in her life just enough to finally let them into her secret horrible world, and only finally told you after your promise to not get upset. How she must have struggled with the decision to even tell you at all? And what did you do? Made her worst fears come true with the way you and your family handled it. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate that you are close to your parents but where do you get your information? What about Jennifer was not clean? The fact that as a young adolescent she was brutalized and oppressed and molested by an adult male who scared and intimidated her? You and your family can't see or think of this young woman you loved so dearly beyond the UPS guy having sex with her when you're not home? You betrayed her and the close-minded misinformation you received about how sexual abuse occurs sounds like it came from a vintage high school textbook. There is no "classic" example of abuse and molestation. You've just ensured that Jennifer will never share her deepest, darkest secret with anyone again much less allow anybody into her world again. It was definitely sickening. And people wonder why I don't get to the updates as often anymore. UPDATE I often get responses to people when they send me their story and I respond to it. As many disclaimers and notices as I post on this site, and on the story submission page, some people just don't get it. Once you submit a story to me, the story becomes my property and unless you state otherwise, you are giving me permission and consent to publish it. You cannot turn around and revoke that permission simply because you did not care for my opinion. But, because the above poster felt so passionate about my opinions, I thought I would post his demand for removal and my thoughts on that as well.
December 21, 2001 I just read
what you had to say on the story I posted a while ago, and was offended
by being called a prick. Excuse me, you F*****G C**T, but why am I being
called a prick? I'm the bad guy here for making the decision that I
made? I told the people I knew personally about this the same way I
told you, and they were on my side. Apparently you were on her side.
Besides, she lives too damn far away from me and she is going no where
in life.
Ever since I met her, she has wanted to join the Navy, and once she got in, which was recently (October 31, 2001), she absolutely hated it and wanted out. She got what she wanted, and now she's back working two jobs again, just like once before. She didn't graduate from high school the way most people do; instead she repeated her senior year, dropped out, then finished at home and got a diploma that way. She has no plans of doing anything else other than working two jobs at the mall that pay pennies, and I don't give a rats ass what you think, but she's just asking for more trouble living at home with her step Dad, since she still does to this day, and probably loves him and what not. My kind of woman would have made an effort to try and do something the FIRST time she had the sex with her step Dad. She chose not to for some ass-backwards reason, but that's fine with me as I don't even care anymore. I'm single again, and proud of it. I don't need another female in my life after thinking things over, because break-ups are nothing but a BITCH. Never again do I want to go through another one, and I have had so many people tell me that I don't know how lucky I am to be single. A couple of my friends tell me to STAY SINGLE. Well, I plan on doing just that. Which is probably the smartest decision I have made in ages. Here's a quote for you that I bet you've never heard before: "If it's got tits or tires, sooner or later, it's gonna give you trouble." How so true that is. In my 22 years and some odd months of living, I've now had both give me trouble. Well that's all for now. And I'd appreciate it if you remove my story from the Sep/Oct/Nov/Dec '01 letters section. If you don't have anything nice to say, than keep your comments to yourself.
Wild's Reply - Uh
no. I don't really give a "rat's ass" what you would appreciate. While
I'm not familiar with the quote above, I am familiar with that classic
line from the film "In the Company of Men", I believe it goes "Never
trust anything that bleeds for a week and doesn't die". You should watch
it, I'm sure you could relate.
I agree with your friends who advise you to stay
single. You really should. The only thing misogynists hold for women
is hatred. I'm sure whatever "ass backwards" reason Jennifer had at
13 to not put up a fight with an adult male who was forcing himself
upon her sexually was good enough for her. Probably something stupid
and non-sensical like fear for her life maybe?
I didn't find anything really nice about your
comments and yet, you did not keep them to yourself. What part of "F******G
C**T" was nice? You hypocrite. You don't dictate to me what to do and
if you're too stupid to read the notice on the bottom of the story submission
page which I will now quote from "Copyright
1998 Wildxangel- All Rights Reserved. All Stories, articles, letters,
etc., received are considered to have been submitted for publication
unless otherwise specified and become the property of Wildxangel"
that sounds like your problem. Jennifer doesn't know how lucky she is.
Oh and P.S. - the form you used to send in your
update records your IP address. If you ever send me another note like
the one above, I will take action because that's just the kind of F*****g
C**t I am. I'm relatively sure the folks at MD will find your letters
violate their TOS.
The Updates
Wild, I for one will forever be a fan and an
appreciative fan of your site. There are literally no other sites (I
looked!) out here on the Net that "tells it like it is" without all
the soppy high school level of emotional intelligence that is being
offered out here as "your true and one and only soulmateness". Makes
me truely want to gag at what I hear in some arenas that people are
falling for and so readily believing! within this community of close
to 70 (?) million world wide online users.
Don't ever EVER give updating your site, if anything
ADD MORE. We NEED your site, it keeps us sane, down to earth people
grounded knowing we are being sensible, responsible and practical concerning
online relationships. In fact, I recently gave your site to someone
whom I had a red flag about and challenged him to tell me I was not
being "trusting and practical" in not believing every-single-thing he
said to me (without his last name and phone number) and guess what....I
never heard from him again! Enuffff said Wild. You're doing a great
job and a great service there gal. Soooo sorry to hear about your gallstones
(ouuuch!) especially after your car collison this summer. My heart is
with you.
Wild's
Reply - Thanks
:) I struggle with the updates every month. Letters like the one above
and some of the ones still to come in this update just bring me down.
I know it's not my job to save people, and most people who read it resent
the hell out of it. But again, if just one of them... I watched an A&E
thing about Kerry Kujawa the other night. It reinforced the reasons
for this site. Thanks for your note. Thanks and Help?
Thanks for a great site. I wish I'd found it
... a few months ago.
I consider myself to be a bit of a chat veteran
- 3 years on and off. Perhaps not veteran... but wise to things. I've
had a couple of RL encounters which have sprung from chat and without
exception, they have been fun. I think because I follow the 'meet soon
in a safe location' dictum as well as having no deep feelings invested
in the situations at all.
Anyway, now I find myself caught unawares and
in a difficult position where there are deep feelings. About 6 weeks
ago I drifted into a chat with a really lovely guy. We have continued
to chat both online and on the phone (he's in the US, I'm in Australia)
and things have become quite intense. Actually, they were unusually
intense from the beginning. I care very much about him, far more deeply
than I would have thought possible in this medium, but I'm concerned
he's become carried away with a fantasy. He's 20. I'm 30. While we get
on like a house on fire, I have the distinct feeling that he expects
me to be the beach-bunny of his imagination. I'm soooo not that!
I don't know what to do. He is very honest, very
perceptive and an unusually aware and articulate 19 year old. We share
a lot of the same tastes about things, laugh a lot together, have shared
some great writing, and we really enjoy communicating. I don't want
to hurt him. For me the issue is this: I didn't ever mean to become
so involved with a person who was so far away. I have the means to get
on a plane regularly and go visit - but that's not sustainable. I didn't
mean to get emotionally involved at all. I find myself involved! I wont
ever say love - its impossible to love someone truly when you are operating
outside of physical space. But its the closest thing to love I've felt
in this weird domain.
I'm worried that if I step back, I'll hurt him.
I'm worried that if I send him a photo (wish I'd done so in the first
place) he'll see the reality of someone who is in their late rather
than early 20s and be disappointed, and then hurt or angry. We both
started out saying 'what a fun fantasy' - but its gone way beyond that
and both of us have started to talk about 'next steps'. I guess I'm
just feeling its an untenable situation and I want to know how to close
it off without hurting him or causing anger. (He's a pretty intense
individual and can get a bit down about things from time to time.) At
the same time, I don't want to say goodbye because I feel very strongly
that he's the best thing that's happened to me in ages. I want to go
and meet him and spend some time together. But that's selfish of me.
This wasn't meant to be an agony aunt letter.
*smiling* Just a 'thanks for such a wonderful, open, honest and informative
site'. Reading back... its very much 'agony aunt-ish'. Sorry! If you
have time, any advice would be well received. This doesn't need to be
posted on the main - unless of course we end up happily ever after (or
as a 'not so happy ending') in which case, I'll let you know! Many thanks,
and keep up the great site. Everyone who plays about in this 'space'
should be made aware of it.
Wild's Reply -
You're a smart lady. But it's easy to see the
line down your middle. On the one hand, you can't let go of the ideal,
the possibility that a miracle could happen and a 30 year old (and I'm
still not clear on the you're 30, he's 20, now you're late 20's and
he's 19 thing) woman in the states could sustain a relationship with
a 19 year old man in Oz. I will not say it is impossible, but you know
the odds are stacked against you. The problem, as I see it, is that
while you feel some need to see it through because when we get to our
ages we feel life going by faster, at 19 he is invincible and ageless.
You will like different things, you have no things in common and you're
also concerned about appearances. And then there's the whole awkward
relationship thing if your relationship did survive a first meeting.
Will you be able to handle a long distance relationship knowing he's
online when you're not? I can't tell you what you should do, because
I don't have to live with the consequences. I think you need to splash
some water on your face and try to be as objective as possible. What
are the relationship goals you have set for yourself and will this young
man be able to reach them. If not, will you be settling sensibly wise
for what satisfies you emotionally? Good luck :)
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